but it shows that kim jong-un is still not ready to meet anybody that has some substance, foreign policy background. he hasn't done that with the chinese. he hasn't done it with south koreans. again, it shows that he is probably right now spending his time consolidating his power, and he's replaced various generals from the old guard, keeping control of the military, the communist party. but what is so interesting is how publicly he humiliated his uncle in talking about his ouster. that they went out of their way to show that this was a very visible ouster. and i have never seen that done in north korea before with his father. they ousted people, but it was done on a more quiet basis. >> if dennis rodman leaves north korea with kenneth bay, the american sentenced to a long term, a prison sentence for apparently doing some missionary work, supposedly, in north korea, that would be encouraging to get the other american out, and dennis rodman would be praised if he were to leave together with kenneth bay, right? >> that's right. and rodman should concentrate on doing that. i don't think rod